You Are NOT Your Pain with Christopher Boyhan, D.C.

Full Transcript

Hello, its Bill the knee pain guru. Welcome to the pain education podcast, brought to you by the comella Foundation. Today we have a special guest coming to you from Ashville, North Carolina. It’s Dr. Chris Boyhan, or You got it correct, and. We’re gonna talk about you are NOT your pain. So Dr. Chris, Chris, thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your information today. Tell us, how did you get here?

Well, I met you through our networking group, and we do see a lot of people with me pain, I’ve dealt with a lot of people of me pain, so I felt it was a pertinent to reach out to you. I didn’t know what you were doing with your business and you took them all a foundation and everything like that, and once I found out, I thought it would be imperative to join forces with you and get this information out there and share some stories, and as we were speaking earlier, we can connect us to one person today, impact their life and change it, I think that’d be a successful day for this chapter.

Yeah, absolutely. So… You’re a chiropractor in the Asheville, North Carolina area?

Yeah, I’m a practicing chiropractor here and I was Carolina, I’ve got a history of dealing with… In healthcare for over 20 years, I started out as an athletic trainer, working with high school and college athletes, prevention, care of injuries, injury management, rehab on the field management, and then I graduated to the big leagues of medical device sales, so I was walking working in orthopedic trauma and spine surgery. I grew up in northern New Jersey in a very blue collar family, through up going to Irish Catholic grammar school, and there was really no excuses for certain things and… My dad was in the military before I was born, and he came home on leave, he felt sick, so they get into medicine, on the ride home, he fell asleep, and the car hit a guard rail and the guard went through the motor block and broke his hip in his arm, and luckily enough for him, he had a paramedic city next to him in the car that he was driving home, and it was a very, very cold night, and you get that adrenaline rush and emergency half and you hear about moms picking up the Volkswagen off their baby is a little five or five man, say, my dad’s like pulling the car seat out of the car and getting him outside of the car and ’cause it was so-called the wound that was open coagulate though, is you would have bled out and died as a maritime, his life and growing up as a kid, my dad never had it, he was to say all better, and he never got a handicap parking a jump in and out of this truck, coach and sports team.

Just used car. So any time I had a little nicer when I didn’t have a reason for next cure for things is of that nature, so it just kept me honest and kept me motivated to be honest, ’cause I had my own birth injury, I was born when I was born they took out with my mom from Fort with forceps was the top on my neck to ship so severely at a place, but nobody checked it and I wanted to be in my pediatrician’s worst case, obviously, and he was big into research, very well known man, and I’m very thankful for him, he kept me alive, ’cause there was many rides… I remember being as young, about five years old, and my mom talking my Dad, he was on a hunting trip, tell him he needed to come home, and I’m just breathing on the floor. You ever feel like you have series shares of breath? You do pallet on your chest on the rides at a hospital that night, I just thought I was gonna be a donor, and I feel like to breathe in through a straw, this was kinda like a normal occurrence.

I was in and out of the hospital, there’s nights that I would be going to his house getting hit on the floor from the medications and stuff like that, and it was just a terrible experience overall… And this was when you were a child.

The pediatrician.

From birth, just always had these problems, like I said, in the hospital, taking medications and when you’re 10, you wanna play sports… Right. Okay, doesn’t wanna show around their friends were just playing the freestyle with my cousin, I’d have these massive asthmatic and that’s a problem, but in my heart, I didn’t believe him, I… I couldn’t play sports, I got to know I could do it. And so my mom, Tallmadge have to play football. I was very successful at it, played at a high level from day one, but I leased my way through nebulizer treatments at half time, always taken a pillar shot, the cover up was going on, and I got to be able to play football… College is very fortunate, but I just do such a ditch that my body just shut down, so even though I had no huge attitude from my dad’s injury, not listening to my body or trying to cover up my pain really hurt me in the long run.

So you were with this up to what age, your high school, and you’re still having a lot of these challenges.

Fortunately, everything’s gonna resolved now, they live through my own journey, my life’s work is going to my own experience, and that’s what led me to where I am today, when I got into that medical device sales doing ortho trauma, I felt I wanted to give back for what was given to my dad, ’cause without the trauma… Sean put them together, I wouldn’t be alive. And I always was fascinated with the spine, ’cause when I did go to college, did you ever lose something you love to do Bill… Have they do that? Yeah, right. Trina, you worked your whole life to get somewhere and then you can’t do it, and I took a medical leave from my football team and I was just on rock bottom, then all of a sudden my back started hurting for the first time in my life, and I felt like there was a knife in my back and somebody I wish I knew I was… I’d like to thank them. Said, Go see the chiropractor. I was like, Okay, and then for the first time my life, so I’m gonna take a picture of my spine, and there was this 22 degree curve in my spine, and whether a smile as faces like, Hey, don’t worry about it.

We could fix it, and I was like, Listen buddy, I’m kind of my rock bottom here, things aren’t going so hot now, let’s see what you got, and literally within three weeks, my spine moved 12 degrees and no reber migrates in school got better, and our mind to back pain being orally changed my world view.

What age was this? Just to give the list of.

Tier 9 E physical condition. Physically, that’s what was frustrated in high school, like as I got physically stronger…

Currently, I was feeling weaker. Yeah, I knew something, but I didn’t know what it was, what was going on. I was definitely like a nerve that was affecting my life like that, and the medical sales… Where was that? In relationship to the 919, it was after.

I finished up my undergraduate work in sports medicine, so learning with this chiropractor, when athletes were coming in, when they sprained an ankle, I was like, Did you really spend your ankle or just bring you in to close your hips or Nero, from what I’m learning at this cartoon changed my world view, and this is an AR gonna relate to what we’re gonna talk about today, but sports injuries, I’ve been around sports injuries for a long time with earning my own a year old and then helping others since I was 18 years old up until today, of what goes on with that, so we worked at the high school level or in college award for 10 years, and Jersey, a couple of different colleges and high schools had an amazing experience, and then we got into the sales part of it, or.

Got… And where in there did you become a chiropractor a… How did that come in to.

Get my heart… I was probably always a chiropractor, I got my first adjustment… At that point, I wanted to go to chiropractic school when I finished Athletic Training School, but I was a knucklehead and how to pronounce my desire system, and it just wasn’t the right time. I think I would have done well in it, but I wouldn’t have respected as a lifestyle is more than just a job for now, for me and my wife and our family, it’s more of a lifestyle for success in life, not just the treatment modality for pain or crisis.

Yeah, personally, I’ve had tremendous results with chiropractors in my life, they’ve saved me numbers of times from car accidents to getting thrown on my head and judo, and there was actually a point in time… I don’t think I’ve ever told this story. When I was in college, I went to the University of Toledo. That was when I was like, Oh, what would you like to do? There wasn’t any major that intrigued me, and I looked into becoming a chiropractor, however, I don’t believe I asked the right people, and I just went down where I was like, Okay, this isn’t gonna work out, but that was actually one of the things that I had… Of anything in college that I would be interested in doing.

So you felt from your own experience that there was a value there, not only for yourself, but for how you could help other people… Oh.

Yeah, it was ridiculous. The first time I went to a chiropractor, I was 16 back issue myself, and I was absolutely amazed at how significantly better I felt in a short period of time.

Yeah, it’s pretty incredible. The first high school I worked at with booing High School in New Jersey and shut out to those kids and all families, we had a great sports run, were the state champs in two sports with the same group of kids in football and wrestling, and for two years, to three years, I worked there, to two years, we went to two state championship games in football, we put 22 straight games and nobody mess to start and we really awesome because my job was preventative, I wasn’t out there running, stretching, kids have put nice bags to did all the work ahead of time, and I felt the limitation of my scope of practice as an athletic trainer to camp, and I feel like the spine, you can put some pressures and get a little consolation going in there, but just that and everything I can incorporate with them, you see the results and the impact. And those kids will view with like yourself, at age 16 gets totally changed and how the victim they’re a Euro, and now that the strength comes from with it, and I always tell people trying to piece come from within, and so uses our body…

We’re kidding ourselves, and we think we’re designed to be healthy, you and I would have a job if you are designed to be healthy… Right, but we are to do is designed to heal, but if we don’t have a few things going for us, it’s very hard to heal, and one of those people that’s Tain, 10000 hours and life studies already, and I will tell you, just scratch the surface and got to new conversations with people like yourselves and what you’re doing to come out of the foundation, but with all that medication and everything that I took, the worst part is it just destroyed my gut for it, all the steroids and everything, it’s terrible for your bone, it’s terrible for your digestive enzymes, so I would leave myself probably getting bloated and all this stuff, so yeah, sometimes covering up our pain with external things can be very dangerous and it creates more problems than it does good for ourselves. And through that, I spent tens of thousands of dollars go into natural pass and they all helped, but I would leave there with 3000 worth of supplement, get stopped at every airport, so why do you have all these potions going on and you’re drinking…

Vitamix is and impact and juices or calorie restrictions, and it just gets… You get 10% better. You could just like, go do my 10000 hours. I’ve to do sit down. The three most important things, I hope everyone can take a moment to write this down, and I think you would agree that nerve flow is number one, to.

Exercise what we’re gonna do, and so I want the listeners to focus on listening to you, I’m gonna have all of this in the show notes. So then they don’t have to worry about writing it down. They can get it out in the show notes. Okay, perfect, absolutely. Please share your approach to leaving pain health.

Yeah, so let’s do that thing is airflow, exercise on water, those are the three things that we’ve deduced it down to… My approach has changed throughout… Has my practices change? When you go to athletic training school, there, you want… You’re learning how to modulate pain, get people back on the field safely in the acute situation, but sometimes by modulating their pain can create a chronic problem, so something doesn’t heal right, just ’cause you could run on… It doesn’t make it a good situation. What I see now as a result from that, if you go to a typical chiropractor, PT, beside surface, they’re all great, especially if you have symptoms, they can get rid of it without a benefit of the doubt, but if you’re getting your manipulated and you’re getting STEM and ice, and you’re not actually restore an air floor function back to the spine, it’s a really bad thing, ’cause they’ll come in in the sixth decade of life after 20 years of chiropractic care with degenerative arthritis, and how do you explain that, except that the sensations were adult and things weren’t healed right, so when we sit down to talk with people and higher give importance as much as their pain is really important to them, I’m more concerned about getting the function better, and I know if I get him to function better, that pain is gonna go away on its own.

And I think when we first talked on the phone the other day, and this stuck with me in my whole life, I think pains a perception of the worst thing ever happened to you as a beast thing, you would think that that’s terrible, but if you pleural seven times you would think that these things just to walk in the park… Right, and that’s probably just to today’s topic, that you are not your pain, when I was at my sickest point in my health, my aunt window, God bless her soul, cancer three times, which she gave me a book and I said, You’re not your disease. And I read that and I really kinda put things into perspective because I think when we’re in pain, the whole world is just that one thing, but when you look at your life, that’s like a small.

Piece, you could have a nine out of 10 things going right but if you’re just focused on the pain, you’re gonna be in that misery, but if you take a step back and be grateful for all these other things you have, I think it helps give you a different perspective of how to work through the situation that you have, in through the injury versus the injury, there is a point that you mentioned that I’d like to dig in a little deeper on, and that was… You were saying that if you could run on your leg, something happened, and I’m thinking of an athlete, something happened and just because you could run on it, it doesn’t mean… You should be running on it. Right, could you make distinctions in there to help the listeners and certainly rep… ’cause I’m having difficulty wrapping my brain around… Well, how would I know if I could run on it? Is that okay? Yeah, Incan.

That’s a great thing. So I’ll give two analogies, one is like, you can drive a car across country on a flat tire… Right, but in my retentive car, you know you got there. Right, right. And also, when we think about some of those life-threatening diseases that are out there, like heart disease or cancer… What does cancer feel like? You don’t know. And artefact was a heart attack, I feel like until you have one… Right, right. So you have all these underlying things, and 90% of people that come in here that have back pain, I have an issue in their neck, but the body except that that is a normal… Long time ago, and then the functioning and then acutely, they bend over to brush their teeth and hurt her back, but when we look at them and see that the motion, the problems coming from the neck, that’s all tier posture and put that stress riser in there. So I often think of exercise as a gateway drug, and what I mean by that is if your spine and neck are not moving properly, you’re gonna wind up and read up, they have a place or just like they do for tragic.

I think it’s important too. You’re gonna take that cross-country trip to get your car tires checked, make sure it’s oil in the car or gas, so same thing with your spine and your health, you wanna make sure everything is moving the right way before you engage in any kind of physical activity.

Here, and to what degree… ’cause from my own experience, the spine could be in alignment and they’re still pain, and there can be tension in the muscles, attendants, a ligaments to fascia and things like that, they can pull the spine out of alignment in your approach, how do you view all of that.

Yeah, well, there’s two types. We have a chronic acute pain and chronic pain, and I learned this before I even to Kate onto chiropractic school where they explained all of that, but when I was doing spine surgery, we would meet the people to do neuro monitoring before we go into the operation area, and what I found was that just because I can make your spine better, if I don’t make some kind of cognitive behavioral change, something else, we’re gonna take the place of that pain for you, and that’s where we’re here about Failed Back syndrome and things like that, and I would talk about this with my chiropractor previously, where it could easily become a co-dependent relationship, going to the chiropractor expecting someone else to take your pain away, so if you don’t take care of the bad, to break into bad habits and the lifestyle changes, nothing’s gonna work, there has to be… Just ’cause the nerve flow is restored, we still have to do these other things to make it all come about… Gott.

It. So let’s go back, I think we just touched on the first, you have three simple steps for Health, and we touched on the first one so far, that was nerves are foes, nerve flow. And is there anything else you wanna go in a little bit deeper or differently…

Well, I think to expand on the last question, when we’re dealing with pain, if it’s chronic, our body can re-organizes itself and it turrets things that are good, as painful, so the most simplest thing could be interpreted as pain, I think in your case, you deal with a lot of neat people. Correct, sesotho, a training room. Some of our hardest cases where people had patella tracking problems and what comes first and chicken, are they working through the exercise or dealing with the pain, Lats a really tricky scenario for those people, and to not sound to aggressive sometimes you have to embrace the suck, ’cause at the end of that, there’s a gift on the other side, so as long as the neurology is right and the spines moving, there’s ways we can get people moving through different ranges of motions to make them feel better themselves, but if we just constantly brace everything around them, they don’t get stronger, they get weaker, and that’s a bad problem, ’cause then all the weight dumps into the spine, and that’s where the pain generator are still comment per se. You’re in alignment, but if you’re a week and don’t have enough structure around you to support yourself physically, you’re gonna still have pain, and that’s really a lot of that comes from, and a lot of it comes from where people are more sedentary in life, as opposed to the foundry workers, chiropractic was…

There was a big difference between the people that sat for a living and the people who worked out on the farm, people have worked at The quirino, get tuned up a few times the year where people… I needed it once a week, ’cause they’re just one condition to move 13 miles a day, we’re not conditioned to sit 13 hours a day talking on Zoom…

Right, right. Well, there you go. And.

What we’re chiropractic people misunderstand it, it’s really 10% adjusting at 90% rehab, and a lot of the work was done on Sanitarium and mental health, and what we know is motion to the spine is motion, but emotion also drives cognition, so when we do extension based exercises with our legs, it wakes up the front part of your brain, that helps with your reasoning, you’re for rental cortex, but when the prompt of your brain is weak, we lose our communication skills and we get our temporal lobe, and we get angry. We have road rage, the pain generators, the mega lo TA negativity, all that runs our life, so not always the adjustment, wake up that part, but if we can do the right rehab and get your move in an extension-based activities such as simple as walking, that’ll help re-organize how you perceive the world.

Yeah, there’s a ton of truth there… How do you gauge with that, embrace the suck concept with the knee tracking, the patella tracking issue… Where is the path between? It’s too much pain, I need to… Let it rest. And you need to get off your butt and do something. Where is that space? How do you… When you work with patients, when you work with clients… Where is that sweet spot for you?

Yeah, it already comes out in the case history, having a detailed case history, ’cause it’s usually not as simple as one thing, a lot of the people who had an injury though maybe wasn’t rehab right, then they’re partaking in activities that aggravated set problem. So they’re coming in with a multitude of other things, and we have to be able to identify that and put them in an order and say, Okay, what can we chip away that’s gonna last least invasive thing for the biggest return, and then… So we try to get that to get the information down. Try to get this fine to move a little better and take some of the pressure of… Get the nerve flow restore first and foremost, and then make things simple, simple as some simple exercises, there may be some deep tissue massage to get the dysfunctional fashion moving in the area where it is, and then I call it baby steps one by one, because if we do two more. I think it’s in our human nature to wanna help people… Right. And it gets lessons I learned in athletic training school, I’m so thankful for it. They’re like, Just do one or two things.

Because if you throw the book at them and do 10 things the first day and they come back worse, you don’t know what made it worse, it… If you just did one or two things and they come back 50% better, that’s a really good thing, so every time we do something, work too aggressive with somebody and they do worse the next day, it sets them back two days, I didn’t have to recover from that… And then we have to start from ground zero. Right, so if we just keep it simple and do one or two things and see, and then, Hey, that didn’t work, but let’s try this this way, I think that’s a much better approach to get the results we want and help people more efficiently.

Got it. And is there any pain scale that you would have your patients work with if it gets above a certain… On a scale from one to 10, what would be too much? It’s like, Okay, we gotta stop this.

Well, we don’t really focus on pain as contradictory as that is… We’re not focused too much on their pain, we’re not blasting people that are in pain, but it’s not something that we focus on, we wanna look at other markers that we do in our exam to see improvement and the neurology. So a lot of what we do here in office who use the infrared analysis, so let’s just see how much stress the nervous system one, ’cause then when you heard your back, right, it’s like You all shut out to your extremities, your heart rate goes up. Right, and then you don’t even know you’re hurt until that your body starts to relax, then you realize you’ve got a problem when all those armorial and everything calm down, so we see the same thing and people have an injury, fight or flight, sympathetic dominance. And that’s what makes it harder to work with athletes, ’cause a lot of them come in with sympathetic dominance, ’cause that’s where they’re operating from, they’re never getting into their arrest and digestion enough, and that’s where you hear a lot of athletes having heart attacks and things at a 50, because we do a great job of getting people through pain or getting the condition for the next game, but we do a terrible job about bringing them back down and to integrate into normal life and what that would look like, so we been so great for on the field for…

Is what kills us early in life, right. I know that’s pretty drastic, but it’s very true, so we wanna see that balance come back and that kind of gives a good indicator for pushing someone too hard or not enough in that type of situation.

And is that covering your point to… On those three simple steps for health, exercise component…

No, I think exercise takes on… And we have corrective exercises obviously, but my system doesn’t work if people don’t take an active part in your life, I would wanna avoid that co-dependency and you look at… If I hear one more thing about or on balance, I’m only gonna get sick in my mouth, and it’s not for people that have it, I’m not against them. But we have a problem, right? And what’s the symptom of Harmon and balanced diabetes, it’s a metabolic syndrome that our hormones aren’t working right, but when you think about the benefits of exercise, what are we asking ourselves to do… I’m asking my muscles to grow it every time, right. So when I do that, I need those hormones, I need steroid almonds, I need the insulin, I need all these things to help them also grow, and it helps regulate ourselves better, so when we think of exercise, unfortunately, most people look at cardio, we get the cardio bunnies out there that you think about, What’s my most bang for the buck, right? If I do cardio, that’s the most calorie expenditure, but we think about our nature as hunter and gathering people, and they’re out there hunting Buffalo for 13 miles a day, they would technically be burning in 8000 calories and that’s not sustainable.

But what does your body do? It tries to be more efficient at all times, so it’s only gonna go to efficiency mode, and they were the difference of a hunter and gathering a couch potato, college teller expenditure is the same. They burn about 10 calories, right? But what we know with physical exercise, ’cause you’re changing the stimulus, your body is gonna always have that metabolic demand, or if you’re always changing up to stimulus, so any good program would have physical exercise cardio mobility, but if you could pick one… And the average person is not gonna be a body builder, they don’t have the genetics, the company, 7 feet people tall in your life, I’ve got me. And how many doors have you met… Right, so in that 80% of the bell curve is the rest of us, and people have the time crunch in the modern world is de… Has it made our life easier? It’s made it Mark compact. If you can only have two or three days a week at 45 minutes to do something, physical exercise is gonna get you the best bang for your book because you’re gonna increase your metabolic demand, increase your muscle mass, and we know the fat or Norman energy source at rest, so you’re gonna…

You’re grim also, and not bad at the same time, and be super not for it, and.

What does exercise look like to you… What does that entail? Well.

Definitely way Berry, I’m a big fan of weight-bearing, and I think it’s really good for our bones, the stress on the bone, there’s so much research out there even now for people with osteoporosis, there’s devices out there to help them get that resistance on the model ’cause people don’t really just talk into my wife, Heather, last night, I’ve made some changes in my own health through… I done different practices, but now I’m back into Power left in the one, a couple of years to get to lift in some serious weight, and it wasn’t that I was weak, your spine just has to get stronger and not the bones have to get stronger each time you work, you’re fracture in your spine, and I have to heal and then it becomes back more rigid and allows you to hold more weight, so I’m on building a firm base and your glutes and your parvin-Al muscles and your spine directors and your robots and everything so post to your chain is probably where everybody could use some more, we live in the magical world, we go forward, and you have the formula side, the side stuff is very…

Ferrero Logi is good for acid body for extensive bending motion, but post to your chain, I never met anyone that has a too strong of a post to your chain walking around. And that’s where injuries happen. We have sympathetic dominance, were in flux forward posture and a popular muscle, ’cause we’re too tight for two, and then when we get the neurology to say that We should be an extension and we strengthen an extension, and not only does it make you smarter, but makes you stronger.

Right? And I see that being very much the case with people who have a frozen shoulder, the tension is forward in the shoulder and the chest and the trap, and it’s all like this, and they can’t engage their scapula in the back that can pull it back and down.

Yeah, I’m so glad you brought up the shoulder ’cause I know you’re in the need, but I have a shoulder injury and wrestling as a kid, and I really thought that was my downfall, was the stress of that injury until I learned more about what was going on and he persevere pressure on my respiratory centers, but for all the years I said I lectures as not train or everyone standing up there to Rochelle, don’t know, here’s what we do, we put them on our anesthesia manipulate, some people get better, some people don’t. And ironically, there’s a cure for it, and a chiropractor mentor, a minor fellow wrestler from New Jersey, figured out there’s a nerve that comes out of the back of your head that elevates your shoulder, you can adjust the head in this very specific way, and the arm starts moving, ’cause that cranial nerve pressure is off and the arm automatically goes up… Hundreds of cases of it people walking here, I only know that they have it, and we get that fixed for them and if not so much… You wanna talk about pain. They’re walking around like, Hey, how are you doing? But it’s not so much the pain, it’s the life effect, because they can’t wash their back, they can’t pick up their kids, they lose their job because of it, they lose relationships because it’s a real problem, and I’m just so grateful to have…

So I’m gonna figure that out, we’re able to help people with that and get that motion restored, but you’re totally right, ’cause that’s in the frontal part of your brain makes you go flex forward, and if you exercise there all the time… It’s a terrible place, right? Everything that shoulder compartments, all compressed the box, and then the super spider things angry in there a very much stronger… You’re creating more stress and then you pop something, so that’s a lot of the things for people have been there, right? So when we can get that adjusted and to get extension and do a little soft tissue work, once there were things down… Their whole life changes a year, they have a new job, they’re happy, they’re doing the things that they like to do, and that’s where the real work on to help people like that.

Have you… In your own experience is probably a little bit off topic, but like I was saying, this is like, I get to hang out with cool people that talk the geek in out over the body. Have you had any connection with The… So as were… And It detaches a teach well, with the restriction shoulder.

Not so much the shoulder, ’cause what we see is the problem and the anti or chain is from 2-6 up and then from 27 down as a poster chain. So most of the cases is more related to the hip, hip flex and extension rotation, things like that, are gonna be compensatory things, there’s nothing to just send a vacuum. Right, so when people’s postures off and their head is off to the right, the opposite side is gonna have a problem as well, so we often do find some restrictions in there, but some stuff is more proud related to the lumbar spine, for what I see mostly with lower extremity type issues, but that they don’t have a rotation and their fashion, so say when we deserve them walking and do some of our oral tests, we’ll see that, but a lot of the results when we get the neck move and better tickets, they call the opiate reflex. So if you ever seen people walk around their head hard… Yes, right. So you can’t walk with your head down, right, so you have to extend out to see, ’cause your vision is your on one sense during the day, ’cause you can’t…

You won’t be able to look at that.

And they’re moment the Horizonte.

Flexor, Pell was underneath of them, those are reflex of action component shopping out with the service contraction coming like that. So the majority of the time I see is what I see in the pelvis, mis-alignment is a reflex from the neck, we just do next three flex resets and things calm down a mea little bit of care down there, but I got thinking just to focus on that area when the reflex is coming from the next…

Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. I see what you’re saying. I’m tracking that. Oh.

It’s a wild concept. People come in here, or back pain, you’re like, Why are you touching my neck? I’m like, Trust me, watch. And they wake up the next day like, Oh, things are much better. And then that allows them, now that they have more extension, they’re able to get deeper to where it’s type to the areas and doesn’t… So us and things are in their yoga practice or mobility practice where they’ve always been tied to… Or the power lifters, I treat it the shoulder, they can’t get that extra thing, but when this is tight to ribs get all jacked up, I estate riot on when people come in, we check their ribs, I’m checking for age town ’cause I wanna see the breathing ’cause if you don’t get your ribs moving enough, it’s like you’re hyper-ventilating all day, and we want a have anxiety, but it’s because we’re in this flex posture, breathing twice as much as we need to, so we couldn’t relax if we wanted to, and then we get that the ribs unlocked, then the air gets in there and the heart rate starts coming down, the pulse, oxygen goes up, and the resting heart rate changes.

No, that’s great. And for the listeners, those who are watching, every time you take a breath, your rib cage expands and it contracts, so when you free that, when you free that up, that allows the lungs underneath the ribcage to move more free.

And then when that’s all restricted, there we’d have problems with asset reflux or goes far to get a hidden, which is a hole in your diaphragm… Your diaphragm, the muscle, right, so I see the other condition mean, see a lot here in the clinic is sleep at a… So sometimes that I lost a dear friend of mine, I went to grammar school it last year to sleep out in the end, I wish I could have helped them, but I didn’t… I didn’t know he’s having his problems, it’s another silent killer that’s out there, so in our exam, when people lose to curb her neck, not only is it called muscle tension and pain, but it’s also a lack of air flow ’cause it’s inching off the air flow, so we do look for that for people to help them with that situation, and then we sometimes have to… As a crazy, I believe, I encourage people to sleep on their stomachs, most people think you need to sleep on your back over as humans, we’re designed to sleep on our belly, it’s why our spine has rides on the back… Right, so kind of a Texas…

If we lay in our belly, we’re all open, but the thing that it really does, it puts pressure on the diaphragm, that’s why we call, tell me time for babies, right. My mom’s brand her young kids in a head of birth, and if you’re like mine, but I catch it right off the bat, instead of having to go through this athletic cascade of putting dysfunction on top of this function and getting super sick and losing your life dreams I see them a week after birth and said that, but then we have on tummy time, but the Tommy time puts the pressure on the belly, so the diaphragm gets stronger. Okay, yep. And also induces you to go to rest and digest mode to give her take a nap and need to have something on your stomach, like a blanket or… Surety, yes, so that’s what happens when we sleep on our stomach and when we turn our head, that opens up to cervical curve, so it actually opens up the airway, better people think it restricts it, but the way the motion works… It actually opens it up. Well.

Yeah, well, it would be… I would imagine the difficulty that they’re having is ’cause of all the tension and the shoulders in the upper back that it doesn’t allow them to turn the head to one side…

Correct, so that we have to get the motion. And some people call it last two minutes, I’m like, That’s fine. I just want you to… To start training yourself to get in there, and once you get a curve in your neck and everything is moving, you can sleep in any position you want, we’re really designed to toss and turn about 13 times at night, so it’s weird when you sleep on our back without a permanent fellow with a curve, it’s almost like an angle race, it’s like we’re in an ankle brace, 24 or it’s not good for you. You got the curve and the spines move and you can… It’s like the rewards. You can do anything you want. See?

Nice. Okay, that’s great. I love it. Okay, client walks in Lipson, shuffles in to come see you. What happens? What happens for them?

You’re gonna have a life-changing experience, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart, I really feel… Going through all the stuff I did in medical world, you kinda get treated as a number, and I don’t think any doctors there to hurt anybody or mistreat people, but it’s just that system doesn’t allow for that human connection, so we wanna sit down and really understand the problem, I wanna listen and hear what’s going on and most people have a misconception, I think the symptom is the problem, and it’s really not, because when I talk to them the day or the year before that symptom came, what I find and my exam was already there, that already was pre-existing, and it’s more about that life effect, like we talked with the frozen shoulder, not being able to pick up your kid, not being able to go to the gym to work on your post to your chain or whatever it is that you value. And when we have that type of injury, we stop being who we are and we start accepting less, it’s like this downward slope that occurs, and my stick on just getting people out of pain, I think that’s very energy-neutral.

I’m just bringing you back to where you were, but what about going up over here, so we really work on that life effect, but then we wanna hear about their objectives. What do you wanna get out of this experience? And not only Captain, Obvious is to get you out of pain, but we want to get you back to doing what if you love to do or more of it, and then we worked really hard to bridge that gap from healthcare to personal development, so I asked them in a year from now, if we were turning around and you not just go out of the park, whether it’s something personal, professional relationship, what does that look like? And you’d be surprised some of the answers I get, it’s like, Hey, I wanna get married, I wanna start a business, or I wanna do this or that. And they never could get over this one obstacle, but as soon as you start moving things around, and this practice is very provocative, walking to my daughter, you have to be very brainer one, you have to admit that you have a problem, but then you have to take action on it, because everyone else here is getting healthy and if you’re not taking an active part in it, you’re gonna fail out of it, and that’s okay, because I’m not here to push people, everyone has to learn on their own about how they wanna act something, but that’s the best part of my job is I get to see people be the year of their life, and these life changes occur fast, 61, three months, new job, new business.

It’s pretty wild. So once we get to listen to that problem, we wanna be able to see the problem, so we do a very intensive critics… Structural correction, fine exam. So we have some amazing technology here in office, we do a structural correction motion image to actually see the spine moving five and motion. Remember the game Genie. Everything’s out of place. Yeah, yeah. And you’re all out, but there’s that one in there holding it, right, and people’s cases, it’s two or three problems, but it allows me to see the problem, they get to see it and precisely… Work with that problem right there.

So when they’re this technology that you have and they’re moving… What are they moving? Like their decline.

They’re looking down and then I wanna look at the longer spin, they side that, so we’re looking at the spinal mechanics, but what’s going on?

And is this like an X-ray devices? This is just on the outside of their skin, it…

It’s a movie next Ray, so we call the emotion images in real time, so when we take a picture, just an x-ray, that’s one thing, it’s kind of like looking at an athlete at the combine and then fell on the track soon, like all he looks fast. But until we put the stress on it, we don’t see how things are gonna perform, so we actually wanna see how things are moving, ’cause sometimes something might look wrong, but if it’s working, there’s really nothing wrong with it, it’s like that old beat up car with a cup engine underneath of it, it’s perfectly fine, but when we put the stress on the spine and we’re able to see, it allows us to work precisely where someone’s problem is, and that allows us to get a really good effect in a short period of time, and then we also do an a nervous scan, so it’s, like I said, after I Justin, we expect that to change, and when they come in for their follow-up visits, I’m looking for reasons not to adjust them, believe they are not contrary to most chiropractic oversell in the distance model where they only get paid if they do something, if your body is healing, I don’t need to adjust you by hand because if I do too much and adjusting it could be destructive to your body, ’cause your body doesn’t know the difference of an adjustment at the wrong time or a car wreck, and I’ve had all types of chiropractic care, and I don’t fault to anybody, but for…

What I didn’t get into earlier was for when you lose something, right, you’re like, No, I’m gonna be a good soldier and never in use that again. And so I went to the chiropractor once a week for 15 years, and I got in the same adjustment with my neck, twist to the right, to the left, my spine, left spine right and would feel better, but the pain in my shoulder, which wasn’t my initial problem would always come back, and I just figured that was life, and I would take that stim machine and I would get blisters on it ’cause it was a peak thing, ’cause I just wanted to get rid of that pain, and I had understood the machine, and so that he… And we just kept working through it, but it was the same problem every week, and when I finally decided to align my life with my values and go to chiropractic school later in life, my intern was a turn and didn’t get me care for two months, and I was really hurting. I couldn’t take my neck up at the end of the day, I felt nauseous, I was like, I need to think I need to go to the hospital, but will they got in there it to another picture, and the param spine was one degree worse and it was 15 years ago, I was like, this is insane.

I just cashed in this awesome job for something I love how his chiropractic failing, and somebody was smart enough to take a very special picture on my over-cervical and saw that even though I had a curve in my neck from all the athletics that I did, which had to be going, my top on Alice, going as a quarter into my spinal cord Atelier. They’re like, Here you are right. I like, Oh, good. They’re like, No, really? I’m like, No, I think I’m pretty sick. And I was playing football with that, and that’s why I was always having the health, ’cause of that injury where… And the crazy part about it, when you learn the neurology of breathing and the range, DeVoe heard of sin before he’s dying, so one millimeter pressure and they bring them and they die, I’m out there with a quarter inch pressure and I’m playing football, run into people at so that’s where our office is really focused, the specificity of the analysis because we don’t wanna miss that, ’cause all the time I went to the chiropractor ever addressed that problem, and they all helped me and to the best of their building…

From their scope of practice. So I’m not criticizing it, just for me, there was something else in there beyond the pain, that was the true generator of it, and my spine was moving, but there was another problem, that’s what we’re really looking for for people to help identify that for them, and then of course, we do a big thing as a posture has… Posture is a key to what’s going on, we talked earlier how the eyes have to be level otherwise you’d walk in a circle, right. So that’s where we see those asymmetries in a high shoulder and I turned out foot and things like that, ’cause if I was to correct that on some… They all over. And so they’re brining in order for you to stay up, we have to do that, and of course, any kind of orthopedic or not a test from athletic training days we do for people or in any kind of tears and the ES or shoulders or any other kind of care that they might need, concurrent, what we do in the office, especially when a chronic knee pain in her shoulder comes in, we often find some stuff that needs to get taken care of once we work from central nervous system out, so we get that calm down then we go on to the perpetrate and extremities and things like that, and I used to think that extremity adjusting was a joke, but from being working as an ethic trainer, you’re just working around it, and now what I’m seeing, you’re just the joint and people heal like that it’s pretty wild.

And then just walking is to read up, and if they maybe a little more than we Ofer that out to the right professionals, big fan of collaborative care, respect to their professionals, masters of their craft, that my world, my piece of my healthcare is so small. Billets, the most vital. People get that piece right? Everything they build off as a strong foundation, that’s why my three things is a permit airflow exercise and water, you faith strong foundation. It’s uncreated build athletes and put this function on to dysfunction is just gonna crack. And then when we deal with the normal population, it does… If mom or dad are not feeling good, it’s like if they go down, what happens? All these people are depending on a… Their companies and things like that. So I never really come out of treating them like a professional athlete in their own life and get them up and running so that that doesn’t happen.

Okay, let’s go on to the third point, WATERS love water. Tell us about water.

Well, I think you grow up as an athlete watching the Gators a Thursday for the deep down body first… Right, that’s marketing. And that’s what it is. We talk to other about exercise when they sell that it factor… The Nike commercial, he resonant and hip. It’s people from taking action. And it’s also the same thing with Gatorade, sugar water. Right. And the craziest thing, he really got me into it personally, and I see people are coming into the practice and had general spines with no trauma. And what I was noticing was it when we did some lab work is that their magnesium level was so low names, so important in our body ’cause soon around her stress, that’s the first thing to get depleted, but magnesium also inhibits calcium, so that have low magnesium or calcium getting laid down like crazy and their spine… And that’s what was happening. This Metabolic and balance.

Magnesium inhibits calcium, so if you have plenty of magnesium, you’re going to prevent calcium building up… Correct.

Yes. Yes, or Barthes is a metabolic and balance.

Okay, so we’re looking for a right ratio of magnesium to calcium…

Yep, correct. Okay, people often get at that patient wrong, they think over-use of a thing, but if you’re seeing a hammer as a carpenter first week your store, but the rest of your life, you’re fine. Right, right. So you’re not gonna build up arthritis in that, that I… Rowboat, that goes on. And the same thing, if we tentative… This is the other thing that got me into it. People are showing up with osteoporosis in their 40s and like, Hey, what’s going on? And I would see this in the spine surgery, and I was like, what’s the common denominator? And they all had their 13 synthetic medications and are all eating the same food, which is super acidic, and if your bodies have to Allie things that digest it, so it’s gonna take what it needs to calcium from the bone to analyze it, so it’s make.

Tick. Okay, this is interesting ’cause I did not know this. So an acidic diet, the body brings the calcium in to balance the acidity is.

You get digest it.

So you could digest it. And that is the factors that contribute, or one of the factors that can contribute to osteoporosis.

AENEAS, where people get… The fat is what it is, it’s taking a fat and pushing away from your organs ’cause it says, Hey, I can’t deal with this right now, I have to put this on the external part of my body as seen people when they go to an outline diet and start drinking what we call a structured water, they do much better because now their body, the metabolic processes and the body can take place, and then they start healing better and also helps with the Joint Health big time, ’cause it’s another part of being Acidic with your body is your joints get destroyed it… We see it with all different types of joint disease problems, so we’re 70% water, just like there is a 70% water, and it’s not just… It’s the quality of the water, ’cause we have so much contamination now with our pollution and the rain comes and hits, depletion becomes acid rain, and then it’s the ground where we have glyphosate and everything, and then it rust the pipes in your house and the voters. But what do we have? Broader artery disease is a hardening of the arteries.

That’s one of the biggest killers out there, where the oxidation, it’s like Rusty bumper inside of our body, so when we take out the rust with structured water that has a magazine by carbonates in it and neutralizes the heavy metals, it heals our gut flora from all the contamination, a lot of medicines are known to let your body of magnesium… So when we do that, our health changes and my wife is astonished, ’cause we have a great filtration system at the house, and people are two older boys into our marriage, and then we have two younger ones, and now with the difference of the water, my daughter 18 month has all our chief… And one day she came down hard and putting out disease and two days later it was gone, and you hear about people… So if this takes months, and so it’s just amazing the difference when you test the water in different areas and see the health of people, that’s one of the things I do for people is test their water and make sure it’s not contaminated.

And where do you go for water testing is that… I have.

A meter here that I used to test for to… Of solids, there’s a company here in Natal mountain water systems that can test your order as well, but what you really want is something that’s gonna restructure the water, react it and then put these chemicals, the carbonates to Marl, if you think of water coming down a mountain top. We have a lot of these waterfalls here in North Carolina, it… 50 of them. Have you ever swam in an… Any of them? Yes, it’s like the font, you get out and you’re just like, Wow, something… A different part, and that’s what it is, is that water goes down the rocks and it’s exact, so it gets oxygenated as it’s going back and forth, it needs to… All right, so it’s like a tetrahedron cycle that spins around, it’s not flat when water comes out of a place after a treatment plan, it’s flat, desolate is no life to it, there’s no option in… There’s no life here are people suffering from their health, hypoxia, from not getting enough oxygen, and they’re put oxygen in your water to help you, and then when it goes over those rocks, it gets mineralized.

Yep, so we missed that with treatments, and I think there’s over 200 chemicals that pass through water treatment. You’re Ashville water is better than the rest of the country, but it’s still contaminated, and when we change, that is just a pivotal part to our health, to mean our life goals. Do you ever, when you’re thirsty, ever drink a lot of water, but you just still feel thirsty… Yes, yeah, so that water is flat, the pH of it is low. The structure is bad. And we you doing structured water with a high pH and good carbines in it, your body absorbs it anyway, it’s got me very cosy power right up. Got.

It. Yeah, that makes sense. Awesome, so we got your three simple steps for health, which is gonna work for if somebody’s struggling with pain, we got the nerves, we get the exercise, we got the water. Is there anything else you’d like to bring to the conversation today? Anything else that I hadn’t covered that just kinda sticking out in your mind that we’d like to dig into…

I really enjoyed the conversation. I think the one thing I do wanna add is with the magnesium, with people in pain, it really helps… It helps you get to sleep. It helps with the muscle spasms. It’s a key key component, ’cause your body’s healing, it’s gonna need a lot of IT, and that’s something to really make sure that they focus on it. Just in closing here, I think these are some really important topics, I love what you’re doing here. I think we touched on everything, and I just wanna be a resource for people to… When they decide chiropractic care for them, or if they know someone that has a condition that we can help with, they’re just sitting out a waterfall and the help… Topic health comes up on the thing a you and I do, and how we be help, and the one thing I’m not gonna do, there’s no special offer, you don’t sign up today to get care for A… You’re not gonna die tomorrow. But we do do in our practice that I’m really proud of is our consultations are always complimentary. Just a conversation like you and I are talking here.

There’s no commitment. So we’re always willing to talk to people, whether it be in person or online, Rose, happy to do that for you. And thanks for having me.

Yeah, thank you, chris, get it set up where if someone wants to reach out to you as a resource, we’ll have a link set up where they can get in touch with you directly.

Beautiful, love it. Keep up the good work.

Well, thank you, Dr. Chris, really appreciate your time. I enjoyed our conversation. I think it was fantastic. You brought some wonderful stuff to the conversation. Any other closing remarks? Through… Before I wrap this up.

Yeah, I do. I really wanna encourage people to not… Wait, I think there’s three reasons we’re in health prices, and number one is the wrong definition of health, and we’ve touched on it earlier, we’re not designed to be healthy, were designed to feel… And if we can’t heal, it will not… Definitely not be healthy. People also, there’s no accountability. We talked on this earlier, is being a co-dependent relationship with your therapist, so you need to take an active part in your life, and the last one is procrastination, ’cause the lines of disease are coming as we progress and get more technology, the lifestyle diseases of diabetes cancer and heart rate, they keep going. And if you take action now, we may be to help you, but if you wait a year, it may take longer, it may not be able to correct something, so… Or any way out of a problem. Even though you can do it, like playing hurt, I run on it, the hard ankle may not be the best thing for it ’cause it’s gonna… You’re gonna hit the wall and we don’t want to see people do that.

Got it. Well, once again, thank you, Dr. Chris, and this is Bill parravano, the knee pain guru, coming to you on behalf of the pain education podcast in the comella Foundation. Wish you a wonderful day. And we will see you on the next one.